CGTN Liu Xin's exclusive interview with the editor-in-chief of an independent US investigation website: How were the lies of Xinjiang's ＂genocide＂ concocted and spread?

On February 18, 2021, the independent American website "The Grayzone" published a report titled "U.S. State Department's Allegations of China's "Genocide" Based on Data Misuse and Unfounded Claims by Far-Rightists." The report refuted German Zheng Guoen's accusation of "genocide" against China, calling Zheng Guoen a "right-wing religious extremist" and his related research was blatant data abuse and fabrication. On the 24th, the editor-in-chief of the site, Max Blumenthal, accepted an exclusive interview with CGTN host Liu Xin. He told Liu Xin that by analyzing Zheng Guoen's "report" "forensically", he could find that his conclusions were vulnerable and even ridiculous. However, these inflammatory "conclusions" have been widely quoted by the US and Western governments, parliamentarians, and mainstream media. Why? What is the purpose of this political manipulation, and what are the consequences? The following is the Chinese translation of the interview transcript. 

#1#Data abuse, sinister intentions Liu Xin: On the "Gray Zone" website, in a report titled "U.S. State Department's Allegations of China's "Genocide" Based on Data Abuse and Far-Right Unfounded Claims," You refuted Zheng Guoen's so-called "genocide" allegations against China, calling him a "right-wing religious extremist" and his research a blatant data abuse and outright lie. What prompted the "gray zone" to publish such a story at this time? 

Screenshot from "Gray Zone" report Max Blumenthal: Thank you for inviting me to the show. We are publishing this report because we have been exposing the loopholes in the vast amount of false and misinformation released by Zheng Guoen and those who echo Zheng Guoen, funded by the U.S. government. The purpose of these messages is to thwart diplomatic efforts between China and the United States and escalate the new Cold War. We have published articles in the past exposing US information warfare on issues like Syria. The reason why we published the article about Zheng Guoen this time is the same. The U.S. State Department hopes to use information warfare to stimulate public support for its humanitarian intervention in Syria or Libya, and we have seen the consequences of these so-called "humanitarian interventions", which are gross violations of human rights far beyond what we have seen before. . It's clear to "gray zone" workers, independent writers, and even many Westerners that we're the target of a different kind of propaganda operation. This propaganda operation revolves around a so-called "humanitarian intervention" model, with Xinjiang as its focus, aimed at escalating tensions with China and a policy of maximum pressure. Such an approach would lead humanity into a dire situation. 

In the characteristic courtyard of "Gu Li's Home" on Ajeya Road, a scenic spot in the ancient city of Kashgar, local residents play musical instruments to attract tourists (photo taken on July 9, 2019). Photo by Xinhua News Agency reporter Zhao Ge#2#Number game, absurd and shameless Liu Xin: Let's pay attention to your recent article about Xinjiang. The article is strongly worded, accusing Zheng Guoen of his research and his "genocide" conclusions, riddled with blatant data misuse, deceptive remarks, taking raw data out of context, and fabricating statistics. Can you give us an example of how data can be blatantly misused? How did you come to this conclusion? Max Blumenthal: We dissect one of his most important papers, like a forensic doctor, on the so-called "forced sterilization" in Xinjiang. The paper was cited by former U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. In order to prove that China is engaged in "genocide", Pompeo cited Zheng Guoen's name and his paper. The paper has also been cited by the Associated Press, CNN, and several media outlets. Apparently they didn't do any fact-checking on Zheng Guoen's research. This paper has not been published in scholarly journals, has not been peer-reviewed, and was published by the Jamestown Foundation. The foundation was created under the oversight of former CIA director William Casey to create a channel for payments to former Soviet dissidents. It is essentially a front of the CIA.

The CIA Zheng Guoen's paper is full of loopholes, data abuse, and cannot pass any academic publication review. One of his key findings was that in 2018, 80% of China's new net increase in IUD implants occurred in Xinjiang. It sounds like it's saying that 80% of China's IUD implants take place in Xinjiang, any reader would interpret that way. We went to Zheng Guoen's data source, the 2019 China Health and Health Statistical Yearbook, and found that only 8.7% of IUD placements occurred in Xinjiang in 2018. (Translator's Note: The total number of cases of IUD placement in the country is about 3.77 million, and about 330,000 in Xinjiang.) But he secretly changed the concept to confuse the public. He coined the term "net increase in IUD placement", which is calculated by subtracting "IUD removal" from the local "IUD placement". China's "net growth of IUD placement" was about 300,000 that year, and Xinjiang's "net growth" calculated in this way was about 239,000. From this, he calculated that Xinjiang accounted for about 80% of China's "net growth of IUD placement". 

"2019 China Health Statistical Yearbook" / Figure But if you think about it more deeply, you will find that according to this calculation method, taking Henan Province as an example, the "net growth of IUD placement" is 206,000, accounting for 69% of the country. That means that Xinjiang accounts for 80% of the country, and Henan accounts for 69% of the country. The two together exceed 100%. It doesn't make sense. Zheng Guoen used a series of cunning operations to obtain the incendiary data of "80", but in fact he could not justify it. You can see his mind: he manipulates statistics to create the illusion that most Xinjiang women are forced or even forced to undergo birth control. This is pure fabrication. To make matters worse, there is a graph in Zheng Guoen's "paper" where he claims that women in Xinjiang receive between 800 and 1400 IUD implants per capita (year). what does that mean? According to Zheng Guoen, Xinjiang women each undergo four to eight IUD placement operations per day. How can a person be able to undergo so many birth control procedures in one day? This is totally against common sense. 

The diagram used by Zheng Guoen, you only need to look at any of his thesis notes, any conclusion, search for relevant citations, and you will find that he is a manipulator and agitator. Sadly, all the media, along with the US government, and even his own team failed to fact-check this. That job is left to independent media like us. #3# Zhang Guan Li Dai, self-contradictory Liu Xin: It sounds unbelievable that his conclusions are so different from the facts. However, no one noticed this, no one checked the data. Also, we noticed his use of images, which you also talked about in your report. For example, the photo we show here - interpreted by Zheng Guoen as an attempt to "implement more birth control measures more thoroughly". But if you look at the photo, the people in the center are actually elderly, not like people of childbearing age. It turned out that this photo was taken from a Chinese news website, and it was about a poverty alleviation project in a certain place in Xinjiang, where the local people were given free medical examinations and consultations. What does this indicate? Is it possible that he made a mistake because he doesn't understand Chinese, or because he has never been to Xinjiang? 

The image used by Zheng Guoen is from the Chinese news site Max Blumenthal: It is worth noting that this incendiary and highly consequential "genocide" statement is based on research that is neither in an academic context conducted, nor published in any academic journals. The researchers claim to be experts on Xinjiang issues, but in fact they have never gone to Xinjiang for field research, nor do they have any academic background on China issues, and we don't even know if they can speak Chinese. In the picture you mentioned, two elderly people are participating in a free clinic. Many of my American neighbors yearn for this kind of free medical care. There are also elderly people around, and I don't see any people of childbearing age in the photo. Zheng Guoen used this photo to testify that the Chinese government's forced birth control and mass surveillance in Xinjiang were based on his prejudice. In his eyes, any free medical care, education by the government, poverty alleviation measures and family planning are all evil. Let's leave aside his personal ideology. In the paper, Zheng Guoen intends to confuse the public, treating any government investment in public health, such as the roughly $5 billion invested in Xinjiang in 2017*, as part of a "genocide" policy. Citing data and writings, he omits data on Xinjiang's reduction in maternal and infant mortality. If China really wants to "genocide" the Uyghurs in Xinjiang, why is it trying to reduce maternal and infant mortality? These data are published in The Lancet. It doesn't make sense. Zheng Guoen turned a blind eye to these in his analysis. (*Correction from the interviewee’s letter later, here is a slip of the tongue in the live broadcast. The data is the sum of the special funds of the central government to support the development of the health and family planning cause of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region and the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps from 2013 to 2017) #4# vote for it Okay, willing to be a puppet Liu Xin: Some people will ask, Zheng Guoen's research is so vulnerable, why is there a Western national TV station interviewing him? Why is he still appearing on German national television, quoted by the BBC, CNN, former senior U.S. government officials, and even the current U.S. Secretary of State, Blinken, who endorses this "genocide" theory? why is that? 

The current U.S. Secretary of State, Blinken Max Blumenthal: This just highlights the unbearableness of the American media: these mainstream media controlled by big conglomerates are in sync, and the entire media industry seems to be serving a certain regime. When a "scholar" like Zheng Guoen was launched by a public relations company or a Washington think tank, no one questioned his qualifications for an interview. The job of verifying qualifications was left to us independent media, only to find that he lacked an academic background. Zheng Guoen's blatant abuse of data is to draw a biased conclusion of "genocide", while the US government and some extremists within it use Zheng Guoen's erroneous conclusion to block the diplomacy between China and the US. For those political forces who hope that Sino-US relations will further deteriorate, Zheng Guoen just played a role in fueling the flames, which is why he can easily pass the test. Frankly speaking, there is currently a huge pressure of censorship and self-censorship within the academic world. Telling the truth often comes with a price, as will questioning his remarks in the media. Zheng Guoen once threatened to sue Joshua Landis, a well-known American expert on Syria, because Landis retweeted our article exposing Zheng Guoen on Twitter. Landis' tweet was also deleted shortly after. I don't know if there was a crackdown, but obviously if you question Jung Kwok Eun, you're going to get into trouble. 

The Twitter account of Joshua Landis, a famous American expert on Syria, #5 # Those who follow me will prosper, those who rebel against me will die. Liu Xin: Are you not afraid? Are you worried that exposing Jung Eun will get you into trouble? Has anyone threatened you not to expose Jung Kwok Eun? Max Blumenthal: There is a lot of pressure and even threats, legal threats, to take down our website in the "grey area" of our website. I just published an article exposing Western media as government intelligence contractors based on leaked documents. This article has just been uniquely tagged by Twitter saying it may be based on files obtained by trespassing and it is clear that there is now a crackdown on us. And the main consequence for me personally, and for the website at the same time, is to be labeled a "genocide denier," basically the equivalent of a "holocaust denier." In fact, we are only examining and questioning the political propaganda spread by the US State Department, and legitimately questioning, our government is using this political propaganda to increase international tensions. 

Twitter Hashtag Says "Grey Area" Article May Be Based on Intrusion-Owned Documents I first entered the news media industry at a time when the United States was waging war on Iraq. At that time, I learned a valuable lesson: the Bush-era State Department used the media and Congress to manipulate public opinion to claim that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. Now on Xinjiang, I see the same tactics being used to manipulate the media, Congress, and even the people, and it's actually working. Therefore, we are obliged to speak up and provide some reasonable doubts. #6# Self-directed and self-acted, "Human Rights" monkey play Liu Xin: What potential consequences do you think such behavior may cause? So-called academics are funded and commissioned by a certain political force to carry out so-called research, from which some unfounded conclusions, allegations are drawn, which are then cited as facts and ultimately used as a reference to guide national policy. Max Blumenthal: I should say that this American campaign against Xinjiang actually started in the 1990s. The U.S. House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee hosted some "Uyghurs in exile" with the support of then-chairman Tom Lantos, a supporter of subversion of other countries' regimes. These people have also given similar testimony about forced abortions. The campaign's planners tried to prevent Clinton and his administration from granting China MFN status for trade, but they were unsuccessful then. 

Screenshot of video of Zheng Guoen speaking as a witness in the Canadian House of Commons hearing But now that US hostility towards China is intensifying, they are succeeding. Canada's House of Representatives just voted unanimously to accuse China of "genocide". Who testified at those hearings? Almost all of them are "Uyghurs in exile" funded and supported by the US government. And, of course, Zheng Guoen, a right-wing extremist, a data manipulator, who blatantly falsified statistics but was never exposed. This is what is happening across the West. Canada will use the accusations against China to pressure the Biden administration and other Western countries to boycott the Beijing Winter Olympics. Liu Xin: That approach is very dangerous. Just like the trade war, the trade war the US started against China is a wrong policy based on misinformation, and such a policy will ultimately hurt the US itself, as we saw a few years ago, right? Thank you Max, it's late at night there, it's time to rest. Thank you so much for your insight, keep up your hard work and keep going.

Source: CGTN https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/ngaatjT8yCBPnS1EDigyQQ